[widdershins] Amazing... and yet we still survive...

Thu Oct 14 15:06:25 EDT 2004

Is that why the people born in England are called "SUBJECTS", not
"CITIZENS", as are the people born in the US, because they have better
"Rights" in England and in other Monarchies as "Subjects", IE Property, that
we do as citizens of a Democracy???

Sadly our citizens here in the US is over halfway and accelerating quickly,
toward becomming the "Big Brother society portrayed in the movie 1984". This
dismantleing of our civil rights is almost complete and
I see no way that things will get better.

Read the clip below I'm posting.

FDA Approves Human RFID:
Is this the beginning of the end? Will we all be tracked via RFID chips
someday? Maybe, maybe not but the FDA has approved RFID chips for people
with Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, heart problems and other stuff. All they
have to do next is put your credit card info in there and you are all set
for your next trip to the emergency room. Rumor has it you can use your
implant at Wal-Mart too.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved the practice of injecting
humans with tracking devices for medical purposes, according to a Florida
company that makes the devices. Applied Digital, maker of the implantable
VeriChip for humans.

Nuff Said-
Bootleg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gmx Private 01" <gegohouse at gmx.at>
To: "drag sidious" <widdershins at attrition.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 2:33 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [widdershins] Amazing... and yet we still survive...

> Hello All,
>
> I do not think your information is really complete...
>
> 1. The only country which really has a law with 20 or more Years for
> "Wiederbetaetigung" so called Nazi revivalism is Austria... and this
> you have to understand in a historic context (Hitler being an Austrian
> and all...)
>
> 2. Germany has seen the most traumatic event for a civilized country -
> that a dictator came to power through democratic means... therefore
> there is a "bill of rights" the so called Grundgesetz which is no
> longer changeable to prevent this - there lies the basis for Germanys
> distrust of "subversive societies" - and lets be honest - on a
> corporational level there is little diference between a multinational
> company and the churches, be it the roman cathlic or scientology
>
> 3. There is a totally different understanding of the responsabilities
> of the state in Europe - in the EU the state "protects" his citizens
> from the private sector and organizations - this being good or bad I
> cannot say...
>
> 4. I remember once when in an EFF article they wanted a little more
> regulation in the US while the European activists wanted a little
> less.. the problem of the fine line as always...  : )
>
> 5. The strict division between beliefs and state is one of the
> foundations of continental european thinking and philosophy... you can
> do what you want as long as your actions do not discriminate others...
> as a cross or wearing the burka in school might well do... (the
> problem of protection as mentioned earlier)
>
> 6. Continental legal system (=acccepted -more or less - rules for
> societies) is a rule based system not a common law system... this is
> also shown in the measures...
>
> 7. The recent erosion of civil and digital rights (biometric
> passports, databases etc) is related to the measures
> the US has taken after 9/11 - and this brought the victory of the
> already loosing hardliners in the EU (for more info on ENFOPOL
> Biometric Passports, Flight Data Affair etc see www.statewatch.org)
>
> But in the end all these measures are relatively new and were
> introduced very fast - the question will now be of they are accepted
> by the population - because if there is a continuous debate they will
> be questioned and reversed again as it happens so often with new laws
> and new areas where there is no further experience...
>
> So in the end for me, coming from the continental tradition, I would
> rather say our rights are better protected in Europe than in the US -
> but that, I am sure, depends heavily on your personal background...
>
> just my 5 cent,
>
> cheers,
>
> gego
>
>
>
>
> Thursday, October 14, 2004, 1:04:33 AM, you wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:12, nicolas vigier wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Ben McGinnes wrote:
> >>
> >> > nicolas vigier(boklm at mars-attacks.org)@Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at
06:59:30PM +0200:
> >> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, drag sidious wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > myself to the EU or China's government myself. I can do and say
things
> >> > > > in this country that would get me arrested in countries with
lesser
> >> > > > garentees on free speech, such as Germany or France. Stuff that.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hmm, are you sure there are less garentees on free speech in
Germany and
> >> > > France ? At least there is not (yet ?) something like DMCA.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, both of those countries have some interesting legacies from
> >> > World War II.  Or rather, from immediately following the war. Certain
> >> > restrictions meant to prevent the rise of Nazism again, particularly
> >> > in Germany.
> >> >
> >> > As for France, it's had some pro-secular/anti-religion laws since the
> >> > Revolution (ref. no Muslim scarves in schools).
> >>
> >> Yes, overt religious symbols are not allowed in public schools, but you
> >> are free to do what you want outside school, or in private schools.
> >> I don't really think we can talk about lesser garentees on free speech
> >> because of this law, you are still free to have the religion you like.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> widdershins mailing list
> >> widdershins at attrition.org
> >> http://www.attrition.org/mailman/listinfo/widdershins
>
> > With Germany it's more then just trying to supress left over remnents
> > from Ww2, but it's beginning to spread to ban all forms of "hate"
> > speech.
>
> > It is a good thing to a certain extent, but what constitutes "hate"
> > speech? It's very subjective and will invariably lead to minority voices
> > being squashed and ideas suppressed. Of course they are only going to
> > pick on ideas/speech that are very very distastefull and negative.
> > Religious speech that may promote rascism, for instance.
>
> > Plus now your not only dealing with Germany, when you live in Germany,
> > but now you have the European Union being established as a higher form
> > of government. Which, personally, I would find much more scary then
> > retardation like the DMCA or patriot act.
>
> > There already have been rumbling between the US Government (Bush
> > administration) and the EU from them trying to get the US to join in on
> > filtering parts of the internet to supress distastefull ideas and forms
> > of speech.
>
> > Of course the US could never possibly join in on something like that (at
> > least until people are convinced that "freedom of speech" is as
> > meaningless/narrow in it's definition as "the right to keep and bare
> > arms"), but apparently most European countries have no problem with this
> > sort of supression of speech.
>
> > See:
> >
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,56294,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
>
> > The US has some very bad mojo going that we have to paraniod about,
> > definately. But it's a much more serious problem in places outside the
> > US in terms of freedom of speech.
>
> > Vigilance is something everybody needs to excersice instead of knee-jerk
> > "bush is teh cheney's bitch"/"US is teh suck" type things that seems
> > very popular nowadays. There are big political forces that we need to be
> > very scared about. Chinese have almost perfected their methods of
> > filtering and banning out most of the internet, As does many Middle
> > eastern countries. It would suck if similar barriers formed themselves
> > between western Europe and the rest of the world.
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > widdershins mailing list
> > widdershins at attrition.org
> > http://www.attrition.org/mailman/listinfo/widdershins
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Gmx                            mailto:gegohouse at gmx.at
>
> _______________________________________________
> widdershins mailing list
> widdershins at attrition.org
> http://www.attrition.org/mailman/listinfo/widdershins