From: security curmudgeon (jericho[at]attrition.org)
To: john@johnberryhilil.com
Cc: staff (staff[at]attrition.org), legal[at]attrition.org
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:25:54 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: Polite Request (fwd)


: Received: from ns1.vrx.net (ns1.vrx.net [216.13.76.2])
: Received: from xyzzy (ip32.wilmington5.de.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.231.32])
: From: "John Berryhill Ph.D. J.D." (john@johnberryhill.com)
: To: (comega[at]attrition.org), (modify[at]attrition.org), (jericho[at]dimensional.com)
: Subject: Polite Request
: Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:15:47 -0400
: Okay, here's the deal.
: 
: I understand your project and I read your disclaimer.

I honestly doubt that. The fact that you did not mail this to a SINGLE
person listed as a contact on the mirror suggests you did not read
everything that would be relevant to this discussion. It clearly states
who to contact shortly after the section titled "Will you remove a site
from the mirror?". In fact, it is very interested (read: odd) that you
mailed the two staff members least involved with the mirror.

: I am asking you politely to take down the following material:
: 
: http://www.attrition.org/mirror/attrition/2000/01/21/www.mms.gov/
: 
: If the material is not taken down by November 30, 2000, then I am walking
: from my office to the US District Court for the Eastern District of
: Pennsylvania, and I am filing a complaint against you for defamation.  You

Excuse me? Could you please take the time to re-read what you sent us, and
considier your subject line above? Threatening us with a lawsuit is not a
"polite request". I will try to refrain from making any lawyer jokes at
this point, but needless to say, if this is your idea of "polite", you
have more serious issues you need to deal with.

: will be welcome to come to Philadelphia and to discuss the cases you cite on
: your disclaimer page in that court.

And if it gets that far, so be it.

: An ISP is a carrier of information and does not have editorial control over
: the information.  You do.   I am a practicing attorney, and it is not my job
: to give you a legal education.  In whatever source you are learning about
: defamation law, look in the index under "republication", and that might be of
: interest to you.

Why do I feel that you are simply lashing out in childlike anger, striking
at the only one you can get in your scopes? Since this hacker has
obviously eluded you, you can only see fit to find someone else to
threaten and try to bully. Unfortunately for you, we will not just cave in
to these "polite requests". In your hacker induced temper tantrum, try not
to kick any little puppies please.

On a side note, I have edited our mirror to 'x' out most of your credit
card number. This was an oversight on our part so I have at least
corrected that. At this point, that is the extent of the action we will
take in this matter.

Re-reading the original defacement, I see no libel or defamation. It is
very obvious you did not write that. While insulting, calling you a
"bitchb0y" is not defamation either. Unless you can explain to us a little
more clearly how this defames you, the material will stay up. In that
case, enjoy your walk to the US Districit Court for the Eastern District
of Pennsylvania. I will have to look into what jurisdiction a Pennsylvania
court has over a machine residing in Arizona, run by people in four other
states.

: Sincerely,

Sure it is...


Brian Martin
Attrition Staff