From: /dev/null [mailto:null@attrition.org]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 9:23 PM
To: Ted Schaghy (tedschaghy@isd.net)
Cc: staff@attrition.org
Subject: Re: Your reactions to the events of 11 September 2001... and mine.


On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Ted Schaghy wrote:

> Howdy folks,
>
> If you read the article by Leonard Peikoff I have attached to this E-mail -
> you will know exactly how I feel about the situation in the middle east and
> the recent attack on our soil by the middle eastern terrorists and the
> governments in the middle east who harbor, nurture and protect them.

I don't open attachments from people I don't know.  I'd be happy to read
something in plain text, but I'm not opening a PDF file from a stranger.

> I have read all of your responses to the attack and I appreciate your
> sentiments toward the victims and their families, the heroes who tried to
> rescue them, and those of us who are left behind to take the repercussions
> of the blow and clean up the mess; uh, that would be you and I, in case you
> were wondering.
>
> But... mourning time is now over. Time to wake the fuck up.

I'm sorry -- was there a point at which I indicated that I was not awake?

/dev/null

From: /dev/null (null@attrition.org)
To: Ted Schaghy (tedschaghy@isd.net)
Cc: staff@attrition.org
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:12:11 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: RE: Your reactions to the events of 11 September 2001... and mine.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ted Schaghy wrote:

> Thank you for your response - the Peikoff article is below in plain text.

Noted, and read.  More below.

> I read all of your remarks about the attack on our soil on the attrition Web
> site - and it did seem to me that you were a little sleepy. That came as a
> surpise to me hearing it from you guys. I was a little disappointed, that's
> all. I thought you guys were savvy, with great backbone and balls. If I had

Ahhhh.  Well.  I'm -terribly- sorry to dispell any illusions you may have
had about us being men and women of "great backbone and balls" simply
because we are not advocating a bunch of script kiddie morons defacing the
web pages of our Middle Eastern allies or a couple prejudiced rednecks
murdering Arabic Americans.  We're actually secretly big wimps, and have
all been hiding under our beds since 11.September; clearly by "No more
killing people because of the color of their skin." what I really meant
was "Let's all roll over and take it up the ass from anyone who wants to
attack this country."  Yep.  You got me.

> even half your talent you bet your ass I would be doing something to fuck up
> terrorists. Let's stop pretending we don't know who these motherfuckers
> are - and start doing something about it.

Ahhhh.  "Doing something to fuck up terrorists."  Like...what?  What
exactly is it that our talent would allow us to do to "fuck up
terrorists?"  Do let me know, because I'd be more than happy to do it.

> I visit attrition frequently and I do enjoy it from time to time, I learn a
> lot on your site.

If you'll forgive the sarcasm of my tone -- it's a good thing you've been
able to learn things previously, because it's very obvious that you did
not learn anything at all by reading our statements.  You approached our
site with one thought in mind, and have made judgements about it.  I'm
sorry to hear it; I dislike a closed mind no matter what its fixation is.

> My complaint is, for example, one of you said: "we do not know who did
> this" -  oh, come on, fer crissakes - of course we know who did this. That
> remark is just NONSENSE. Wake up, wake up, wake up.

That'd be my statement.  Want to quote for me the exact statement, and
what comes right after it?  "You do not know who hijacked our planes and
killed thousands of our citizens as well as citizens of other countries
all over the world.  Even if you do blame this catastrophe on Osama bin
Laden, you do not know what net servers he is using.  You do not know
where he is."  Now...would you like to point out a word of that that is
incorrect?  The names of the actual hijackers have not been released; do
-you- know who hijacked our planes?  I'm sure the FBI would be quite
interested in talking to you, if you do.  You clearly blame this on bin
Laden -- so, to keep my comment in context, do you know what net servers
he's using?  Do you think you can pinpoint exactly what routers to DoS?

Mighty cocky assumption, isn't it?

> Mourning time is over - this is not a time for peace, rather this is a time
> for War. This is not a time for "praying" or "hoping" or getting in touch
> with our "emotions." This is a time for War. This is not a time to curl into
> a fetal postition and hang around and mope and worry and cry - this is a

Uh huh.  I would -really- like you to point out where you're getting those
quotes; those bits in quotation marks.  They -were- from our statements,
weren't they?  If so, I'm sure you'll be glad to point me at any place
where we said it was "a time for 'praying' or 'hoping' or getting in touch
with our 'emotions'."  If it's -not- a direct quote from our statements,
then you've got no business ascribing those words in quotes to us.

Are we praying?  Fuck yes.  Those of us who do pray, yes.  There's a whole
lot to pray for.  There are the thousands of dead and the tens of
thousands of people tragically affected by the attacks.  There are the
-millions- of people who will be affected if and when this country
retaliates in war against the people who did this.  Are we hoping?  Fuck
yes.  We are hoping various different things; I personally hope we strike
a blow that introduces the Taliban to obscurity and brings the Northern
Alliance into power in Afghanistan.  I am also hoping that the hundreds
who are still missing in New York are found safe and sound and returned to
their loved ones.  I am hoping quite a lot of things...I can't speak for
the rest of staff.  Are we getting in touch with our emotions?  You're
damned right, fuck you very much.  I am getting in touch with my rage and
my pain and my absolute need to not sit here and be helpless.

I'm just not being a prejudiced bloodthirsty bonehead while doing it.

> time to donate blood and money, to clean up a mess, and to start drawing

Gee, didn't most of our statements encourage donating blood and money?
Gee, didn't we put up a web page the day after the attacks happened
linking to sites that were collecting funds and offering information about
donating blood?  Oh, wait, that's right, I keep forgetting that you didn't
bother to actually pay -attention- to our statements before blasting us
for what you think we said.

> blueprints for the new World Trade Center and the repairs on the Pentagon -
> and it is time for War.

Yes.  But in case you and Mr. Peikoff haven't noticed, that's old news.
The day after the attacks, the President of this nation was calling it an
act of war.  Two weeks ago, boyo.  Old news.  This is a nation at war.
Next?

> If you think getting bin Laden - dead or alive - is going to solve anything
> or stop anything - you're crazy. Some other freak is just going to jump up
> and take his place, and if it wasn't him in the first place it surely would
> have been somebody else. These terrorists are coming after us - that's that.
> It is time to stop all the nonsense and get serious. Period. It is time for
> War. The sooner we realize this and start doing something about it the
> better off we are all going to be.

Uh huh.  And what exactly are you proposing to do about it?  Yes.  Stop
all the nonsense and get serious...and start h4x0ring web pages!  That'll
show that mean old Osama bin Laden who's boss!

Here's a news flash.  You can't do a damn thing about it.  You can bitch
and moan and spew invectives at anyone who is advocating tolerance for
Muslims who had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks, and you can
talk about how if you had the skills you "would be doing something to fuck
up terrorists." but the truth is you don't know where any terrorists are,
much less how to affect them.  You've apparently gotten your knowledge of
Middle East history from a biased newspaper article and are using it to
back up your anger and desire for vengeance.  But ultimately, that isn't
helping anyone.

Do you really think "it is time to stop all the nonsense and get serious?"
Is that truly your take on it?

Excellent.  Great.  Glad to hear it.  Quit sending insulting email, get
off your butt, and go enlist in the Army.  If your prayers for war are
answered, wouldn't it be best for it to be -your- life being put on the
line, since you support the effort so wholeheartedly?  We'll need all the
help we can get, if and when war happens.  So rather than blasting people
in email -- which does nothing to help anyone -- why not enlist and help
out?

I know I'm being fairly rough on you here; however, I do feel like you've
completely missed the point of -all- of our statements.  When we advocate
tolerance of those Muslims both in America and in other countries who were
not responsible for the attacks on America, we are not advocating
passivity.  When we discourage script kiddies from defacing Arab web pages
or DoSing Middle Eastern networks, we are not telling people to do nothing
at all.  When we say we pray for those affected by the attacks, we do
-not- say that's all we're doing.  By jumping to the conclusion that we
need to "wake up" because we are not blindly screaming for war, you assume
too much.

/dev/null