[Infowarrior] - more on....taser discussion

[Richard Forno]

 From a security analyst in Los Angeles:

This doesn't seem to be the case for cops in Los Angeles and New York  
at least, and perhaps in other cities. I'd venture to guess that  
across the South and Southwest it's not a factor either.

 From a LEO in Oklahoma:

I disagree, at least where I work, and will explain why.

I spend part of my time each month in a patrol car being the pointy  
end of the stick in my hometown, or teaching at our police academy  
helping the officers hone their skills on the range.
I’ve been doing that for 16 years now and have watched the migration  
from the sap/slapper/flashlight to nightsticks, asps (expandable)  
batons, kinetic batons (shotgun or 37mm) on to our current standard of  
pepper spray, tasers and the resurgence of side handle batons.
I've also watched the demographics of the coppers change as us old  
guys wear out.  I really did not  think I had a shelf life but some of  
the new kids think so...I have also watched the use of force continuum  
change and adapt as the tool box morphed.  I will say that I have had  
to swing my asp way more tehn I ever do anything with my side handle  
baton.  They look at that and generally just sit down.  The asp never  
was much of a threat.
In listening to the briefs, and teaching at the range, and looking  
over reports at least in my local there is very limited use of the  
taser.  Each time its used there is the required justification they  
have to write followed by the almost inevitable investigation into the  
use of force, often with the threat of lawsuit from the recipient.
We have 131 sworn, and I can count on one hand the tases this year, a  
couple include dogs that in years past would no be here for their  
owners.
We have as of yet to have a improper tasing, and we have been using  
them for going on 4 years now.  In that same time we have had less use  
of the gun and pepper spray, and less hurt officers from fights.
We have had a few officers employ firearms over this time period, its  
often after the taser has failed to produce results and the situation  
has deteriorated to the need for the final outcome.
Each level of force has its need.  I have personally heard from bad  
guys on the street, "he has a taser" shouted from one to another.   
They have often commented afterwards the neighboring jurisdiction does  
not have those and they are more likely fo "fight the cops over  
there".  Its fine with me when they see the taser that they stop  
resisting before its deployed.
I think the quality of training and professionalism of any department  
plays a big part in how the officers conduct themselves on the  
street.  I would imagine the results we see here are not repeated in  
every locale across the nation but would hope that they are more the  
standard then not.

...and from a well-known security curmudgeon:

i'm the last one to blindly believe a cop, but even this guy's story has
all the elements of "he deserved it".

: > The Portland Police Bureau, in a written statement about the
: > incident, say that Phil Sano (a.k.a. "Rev Phil") did not have a
: > front light on his bicycle and that he refused to stop when officers
: > requested.

1. refusing to stop

: > The incident occurred around 9:30pm on SE 7th Street, just north of
: > SE Morrison Ave. Phil Sano says he was riding along and felt cold,
: > so he went to zip up his jacket. Then, in an email he sent me just
: > hours after the incident, he wrote,

2. suspicious motion, possibly concealing a weapon

There you go, two things that justify a cop taking action to protect
himself.

: >    "Across the street a man in all black shouted at me and started
: > walking my way. I stopped pedaling, but didn't stop because my hands
: > were not on my brakes. He then sprinted, lunged and tackled me. I
: > then scuffled to separate him and stood apart from him in a
: > defensive position."

I have a feeling that he left out the shouting involved "stop police"  
and
that the "man in all black" was standing in front of a police car.

: > According to Sano, he was tasered "point blank" in the chest and the
: > lower back and that he began to "spasm out of control as the surge
: > of electricity involuntarily constricted" his muscles.

if he was tasered by two cops, that will be trivial to prove as the  
taser
devices are well tracked, leave evidence and are really no different  
than
firing their gun (casings, ammo tracking, etc). as best I know, their
procedure would have ONE cop tasering, any others to help bring him  
under
control. getting a double shot of taser would likely be excessive and  
easy
proven.

: > "Šthe cop took two steps after him, grabbed him by the shirt, yanked
: > him off the bike, ran hum up the sidewalk and slammed him against
: > the wall and then right away started tasing him."
: > -Diana Spartis (she witnessed the entire incident)

i was in a car wreck a long time ago and an 'eye witness' lied about  
what
she saw because she was hispanic and the other person involved in the
accident was hispanic.

: > Sano says that all the while, a barb from the taser remained lodged
: > in his chest. Luckily, he remembers, a passing ambulance heard him
: > screaming, stopped on the scene, and removed the electrode from his
: > chest. Sano says that the EMT, "was very concerned" that his
: > speeding heart rate would not slow down.

bet you five bucks the EMT was called by the police, standard procedure
after tasing, specifically to remove the barbs.

: >    Sano was eventually arrested and taken to jail. Sano apparently
: > admitted he had been drinking, but was not given field sobriety
: > tests because the officers were not arresting him for DUII. FYI, the
: > officers checked Sano's history and learned that the Police Bureau
: > had given Sano a warning for a bike light and a free bike light in
: > the past."

amazing how this story seems just as reasonable as Sano's

: > Sartis recollects that she was "maybe 50 feet away" and says, "I did
: > not see him [Sano] do anything physical to the copsŠ he wasn't
: > cooperating fully, but he also wasn't doing anything that should
: > have provoked them that much. He was screaming, 'no! no!, why are
: > you doing this?'"

he admits he was zipping up his jacket, the exact second a cop was
approaching or engaging him. WHILE on his bike? come on..

: > This isn't the first time Sano has had run-in with the police.
: > During the 2006 World Naked Bike Ride, Sano was involved in an
: > altercation with an off-duty police officer who was the passenger in
: > a motor vehicle that was being held up during the ride. Sano alleged
: > that the vehicle's driver tried to run him over.
: >
: > In that case, Sano was charged with several misdemeanors (including
: > Criminal Mischief and Disorderly Conduct) and faced 2 1/2 years in
: > jail. The case was ultimately dismissed and Sano was set free.**

and a history of this kind of 'misunderstanding' too...