[Dataloss] rant: Abandon Ship! Data Loss Ahoy!

Kim Zelonis k-zelonis at northwestern.edu
Wed Mar 19 18:22:34 UTC 2008 

I agree that there are a lot of snake oil salesmen selling security products
nowadays.  Their overstated marketing claims prey on fear and lead to false
senses of security.  The Rapid 7 marketing is no exception.

However, despite its stronger claims it seems like NeXpose is simply a
scanning and compliance reporting tool.  In order for such a tool to be
effective the user must 
1) configure the tool properly to include all appropriate assets and apply
the correct rule sets, and
2) fix vulnerabilities once identified.

It is plausible that Hannaford did not run scans against all their systems
(as implied by the revised press release).  Even if they did scan those
systems they might have not reviewed the reports or acted on any findings.

NeXpose is just a tool.  I can't say whether it's a good tool, but even if
it is there is still the need to skilled and informed people using.


-----Original Message-----
From: dataloss-bounces at attrition.org [mailto:dataloss-bounces at attrition.org]
On Behalf Of Adam Shostack
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:47 PM
To: Mark Simon
Cc: dataloss at attrition.org
Subject: Re: [Dataloss] rant: Abandon Ship! Data Loss Ahoy!

I agree with you, but I'll go further.  

First and foremost, it's generally not that embarrassing.  With 900+
incidents in the DLDOS, and 14000 Federal incidents according to the
latest GAO report, it is now clear we have a problem which is beyond
one organization.

Organizations should talk about what went wrong in some level of
detail.  New reporting forms, subject to FOIA requests, are already
asking for this.  Anonymization prevents in-depth follow-on research,

What we need to do is (1) overcome the perception of embarrassment and
(2) figure out if there's any real risk in publishing more in-depth
information.  My expectation is there is not.

(Andrew and I talk about this in some depth in The New School of Information
Security.)

Adam

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:45:56AM -0500, Mark Simon wrote:
| The false sense of comfort with various security products is due to the
| lack of transparency concerning breach occurrences.  It is the rare case
| where an exploited vulnerability is identified and described in detail
| for the public.
| 
| As embarrassing as it may be, we need to share more details about breach
| incidents.  Organizations should be encouraged to redact and anonymously
| publish post-incident reports so the public, including other information
| security professionals, can learn about security tools that have failed
| to help TJX and many others prevent or earlier uncover intruder
| activities.
| 
| It would also help if trusted organizations, such as US-CERT, would
| provide anonymity and publication facilities allowing organizations to
| report details concerning breach occurrences.   Congress passed the
| Communications Decency Act (CDA) in 1996. The Act contains language
| under the heading - Protection for Good Samaritan blocking and screening
| of offensive material - which provides, "No provider or user of an
| interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or
| speaker of any information provided by another information content
| provider."  CDA 230 further provides that "[n]o cause of action may be
| brought and no liability may be imposed under any State or local law
| that is inconsistent with this section." 
| 
| So, find a publisher and get publishing.
| 
| Mark.
| 
| --
| Mark S. Simon, Director of Regulatory Compliance Consulting 
| Eclipsecurity, LLC
| Mobile: (224) 612-3101
| Office: (847) 850-5088
| Toll Free: (877) 369-5331
| 
| www.eclipsecurityLLC.com
| 
| 
| Lock-in success.  Because information travels...
| 
| 
| The information contained in this message may be CONFIDENTIAL and is for
| the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the
| information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you are not the
| intended addressee, please notify the sender immediately and delete this
| message. 
| 
|  
| 
| 
| -----Original Message-----
| From: dataloss-bounces at attrition.org
| [mailto:dataloss-bounces at attrition.org] On Behalf Of Jamie C. Pole
| Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:57 PM
| To: dataloss at attrition.org
| Subject: Re: [Dataloss] rant: Abandon Ship! Data Loss Ahoy!
| 
| 
| Yup.  And does anyone doubt that a company using Qualys would be in the
| same boat?
| 
| All of these vendors that sell non-functioning crapware are seriously
| damaging the efficacy of online commerce moving forward.  They sell a  
| false sense of security.  Nothing more.  PCI compliance in a box?   
| Yeah, right...
| 
| Then again, Visa is also very much to blame.  Until Visa gets serious
| about PCI compliance and starts certifying expert security
| practitioners, rather than clueless companies with big checkbooks, this
| is just going to keep happening over and over again.  Visa should be
| paying expert security practitioners to do PCI compliance assessments,
| rather than having the big consulting companies pay THEM for the
| privilege of saying they are certified to conduct PCI assessments.
| 
| All of these automated vulnerability assessment processes achieve the  
| same result - they identify only the lowest of the low-hanging fruit.   
| Automated tools might identify the exposures that script kiddies are
| looking for, but they most certainly can't identify the exposures that
| motivated and competent hackers are looking for.  Show me an automated
| tool that can identify vulnerabilities that are contingent on the
| successful exploit of other vulnerabilities, and I just might change my
| mind.  I'm not going to hold my breath, because companies are too
| wrapped up in buying automated scans for $19.99 per host.  As we can
| see, they always get exactly what they pay for.  What exactly do they
| think they are buying??
| 
| What's even worse is that there are "security consultants" running
| around telling the world that they base their entire vulnerability
| assessment offering on some of these useless tools.
| 
| Oh, well...
| 
| Jamie
| 
| 
| 
| On Mar 18, 2008, at 8:53 PM, lyger wrote:
| 
| >
| > http://attrition.org/security/rant/z/rapid7.html
| >
| > Tue Mar 18 16:10:57 EST 2008
| > d2d
| >
| > You are a security vendor. You sell the mightiest security doohickey 
| > the world has ever seen. It does it all, including "...ensuring your 
| > network is safe from hackers..." and amazingly it "...scans for Web 
| > site and database vulnerabilities that hackers can use to capture 
| > credit card information without you being aware". Since your doohickey
| 
| > does what no others have ever successfully managed to do, you can tout
| 
| > your client list proudly, and pimp your customer implementations 
| > liberally.
| >
| > UNTIL...
| >
| > One of your customers joins the etiolated top 10 with a massive hacker
| 
| > perpetrated data loss incident.
| >
| > OUCH.
| >
| > [...]
| > _______________________________________________
| > Dataloss Mailing List (dataloss at attrition.org) 
| > http://attrition.org/dataloss
| >
| > Tenable Network Security offers data leakage and compliance monitoring
| 
| > solutions for large and small networks. Scan your network and monitor 
| > your traffic to find the data needing protection before it leaks out!
| > http://www.tenablesecurity.com/products/compliance.shtml
| >
| 
| _______________________________________________
| Dataloss Mailing List (dataloss at attrition.org)
| http://attrition.org/dataloss
| 
| Tenable Network Security offers data leakage and compliance monitoring
| solutions for large and small networks. Scan your network and monitor
| your traffic to find the data needing protection before it leaks out!
| http://www.tenablesecurity.com/products/compliance.shtml
| _______________________________________________
| Dataloss Mailing List (dataloss at attrition.org)
| http://attrition.org/dataloss
| 
| Tenable Network Security offers data leakage and compliance monitoring
| solutions for large and small networks. Scan your network and monitor your
| traffic to find the data needing protection before it leaks out!
| http://www.tenablesecurity.com/products/compliance.shtml

_______________________________________________
Dataloss Mailing List (dataloss at attrition.org)
http://attrition.org/dataloss

Tenable Network Security offers data leakage and compliance monitoring
solutions for large and small networks. Scan your network and monitor your
traffic to find the data needing protection before it leaks out!
http://www.tenablesecurity.com/products/compliance.shtml

More information about the Dataloss mailing list