[Dataloss] time to name names (was Re: MORE BNY (Mellon Corp) Tapeslost)

DAIL, WILLARD A ADAIL at sunocoinc.com
Mon Jun 9 11:56:53 UTC 2008

Liability... if only I could get it through heads that you transfer risk, not liability...

That said, liability occurs at the entity level.  Most breaches originate internally, and are therefore the result of someone violating company policy and the law.  They're not particularly focused on liability, but someone's lawyer most assuredly will.

I should add to V's point as well that social engineering does not always require a bribe.  I've heard anecdotal stories from law enforcement officers of point-of-sale equipment being compromised by someone who approached the store clerk and offered them a $50 to walk outside and have a smoke, or she could stay inside and get a bullet in the forehead.  An employee who cannot be bribed may still be coerced through violence or threats against their families.  Some of these criminals are very organized and often have larger "operating budgets" than their target organizations.


From: Patricia Herberger [mailto:patricia57 at adelphia.net]
Sent: Sun 6/8/2008 11:54 PM
To: 'V.'; DAIL, WILLARD A; 'security curmudgeon'; dataloss at attrition.org
Subject: RE: [Dataloss] time to name names (was Re: MORE BNY (Mellon Corp) Tapeslost)

What about the "Liability Follows the Data" section of the FACTA Red Flags
Rule?  According to that Rule, both the courier and the company that gave
their data to the courier would be at fault.

Patricia L. Herberger
Certified Identity Theft Risk Management Specialist

-----Original Message-----
From: dataloss-bounces at attrition.org [mailto:dataloss-bounces at attrition.org]
On Behalf Of V.
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:45 PM
To: DAIL, WILLARD A; security curmudgeon; dataloss at attrition.org
Subject: Re: [Dataloss] time to name names (was Re: MORE BNY (Mellon Corp)

At 07:30 PM 6/6/2008 -0400, DAIL, WILLARD A wrote:
>Aside from the privacy issue, couriered tapes  are also a concern
>due to the "Crash Restart" method of system attack.
>Basically, a hacker colludes with your courier to drop off your
>tapes in the morning.  The courier then picks up the altered tapes
>that afternoon.  A couple of really nasty things happened to your
>tapes that day.

In addition to the scenario outlined in Mr. Dail's post, imagine your
tapes (or laptops) make an unauthorized stop just to be copied.  Not
so far fetched, and in many cases this type of loss would remain an
unknown occurrence.  All it requires is a payoff to someone -- the
courier, or the custodian of the data.

Almost everyone has a price; if bribed with enough money, many people
will find they can't resist.  Most identity loss is probably due to
negligence and/or apathy, but collusion is a possibility which must
be considered and investigated in many cases.  If a courier is
offered a large amount of cash to wait just a very few minutes while
someone copies a hard disk, how many couriers could say no?  While
this scenario is hard to imagine in the case of a small business,
tapes or backups belonging to big, influential entities are certainly
at risk for this type of criminal behavior.

(BTW, many people assume a laptop running Windoze is secure by virtue
of having a boot password, but these can be bypassed by booting with
a Linux CD.  Remove the CD, shut down the laptop, return to courier.)

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