This is a transcript of the SHITcast podcast #7 interview with Gregory Evans. Transcription generously provided by A.T. for Attrition.org Errata. http://shitcast.co.uk/?p=68 Hi, my name is Matthew Hughes and I run SHITcast with Thom Mackenzie, and I wanna talk to you today about this podcast. Umm, in this podcast we have interviews with Greg Evans, CEO of Ligatt Security, Chris John Riley, blogger and podcaster and Jacob Kuehndorf who's uhh an, another blogger and podcaster and computer security guy. And today we talk about concerns around Ligatt Security and its business practices. I want you all to know that I have aah approached this podcast by makin' it as fair and balanced as possible and givin' each side a fair hearin'to and to let them express their opinions and share any information that people need to see. Umm and basically just make up your own mind, and I welcome any and all feedback at me at matthewhughes dot co uk, but most importantly I genuinely hope you enjoy the podcast. We've got a special guest on SHITcast today. His name is Gregory D Evans. He proclaims himself to be ?The World's #1 hacker?. He has written 8 books he's appeared on TV shows like Fox News, the History Channel umm and wow he's ahh he he's got quite a few notches under his belt. Uhh, Gregory D Evans nice to meet ya. How are things? Umm great, and I appreciate you havin' me on your show. Ok. Ok, so there's been a lot of controversy on Twitter the past couple o' days, and uhh let?s, let?s talk about that. So what has gone down? Well do you know what it is? Is this. One: We've had a lot of people go out there and say a lot of negative stuff about me stealin' other people's information. We're gonna cover that, but I just wanna let you know who these people are. One: Some of these people are disgruntles employees from in the past. I finally tracked two of 'em down today. Who go out, who may have been fired by me, who go out and post some of these articles, who are also security people too. Two: We get some people who are in the IT industry. Now, they're not businessmen, they didn't write none o' these articles, but they're claiming that I plagiarized these articles. They don't call me up and ask me, how did I get the information like you did. They didn't call me up to do these interviews. They post them at blogs. Now these blogs that they're posting, when we go to these blogs and say hey, or my PR team does and ask them would you like to interview Greg so we can get the story straight, they say no, we don't wanna do an interview. But what they will do is, is allow these people to continue to post. So they don't wanna hear both sides of the story. So here we go. Let me just make it real simple. One: On May 5th, before the book I was accused of plagiarizin', when we did a press release and a campaign saying that umm we will teach because we have this service "How to Become a Hacker in 15 Minutes". Now we said we would go on twitter and we will teach people a little about computer hacking every single day. Now, when we did this and we started posting things on twitter, we starting hearing "He's plagiarizing, he took this from this book or he took this from that book". Anything we do, they're tryin' to run it through some plagiarize system or online service that's seein' if you used the material. This is what we said in our, or in our release. We never said that we were using our material. We never said we were using any exclusive material or any intellectual property. What we did say is that we were teaching people "How to be a Hacker in 15 Minutes". Now, there's not too many books out there. I think I own every computer security book on the market. I've never read all of 'em. I would be lyin'. But, I have five different offices and,.. Excuse me Mr. Evans, you have a new email on your Macintosh computer. Oh Excuse me, xcuse me . Just got a email in. Let me fix that. Ok. Sorry about that. No worries, no worries. So. So with that bein' said, what we did was, when we sat down and come up with this campaign, we say: "Ok, what should we do? How can we do it"? So we went through our library pulled out our books and said: "Ok let's take this part o' the book. Let's take this out of this particular book. Let's take this one part out, talkin' about penetration testing. Let's take this one, talkin' about vulnerabilities. Let's take this one about exploits, and we'll tweet about that". Now, we took it from several different books and we posted it. Nowhere did we say that it was only ours. Good example or analogy is is if you go to school or when you went to school the teacher taught you out of a text book. History, math, science, whatever it is. Now, they didn't say all those books belong to me. The books that your teachers use, the teachers didn't write it. When you go to church and your pastor is standing up there preaching to you outta the bible, he didn't write the bible. So, when we say that we're gonna teach you how to be a hacker and we're gonna post these tweets, doesn't mean that we are writing 'em from a book that we wrote. And we never said that. But then, in the same situation we're about to talk about with my book, people are saying that you're plagiarizing. You can't teach people how to be a hacker and use somebody else's book. Says who? Ok, Now,.. Ok, I underst I understand that umm, but the latest claim has come from a guy called Ben Rothke who's ah, a security researcher I'm not too familiar with him but umm, he's written this article and he makes a claim that in the latest book which you released, ahh, which was called "How to Become the World?s #1 Hacker", you plagiarized verbatim entire sections of the book. Umm, how would you respond to... I plag... ...accusations 'bout that? Hold it, he said I plagiarized him? Or... No, ver.. ...sections of the book? ...verbatim sections of the book, so word for word inside sections of the book. Here we go. Well, how can I put this? Here we go. I just did a interview on this right before, but here we go. When we wrote the book "How to be the World's #1 Hacker", short and simple: I wrote 60% of that book. Now, this book was not written overnight. Wasn't written in a month. I didn't go out on the internet and grab a whole bunch of people's stuff and put 'em in the book. Didn't do that. Cuz I'm too busy runnin' a multimillion dollar company. What I did do, I over a year ago, is that we went out and we posted every, all these computer security websites, even on Craigslist, that we're writing a book, we're looking for some original material. So people would send me stacks and stacks of information. And I would go through and is hot and what is not, what is good and what is old, what is new. So what I did was, is is that everybody who sent me in something, and I used it, my attorneys, they then was called a release. And in this release it states that this information was written by you and that you own this information. And that you give Greg Evans and Cyber Secu.. and Cyber, umm Cyber Crime Media umm permission to use this in their book. And we do not have to give you any credit for your information but what we will do is write you a check, right now before we use your information. So everything that's in my book I paid for from the original author. What you have is some meathead named Ben that nobody really knows who went into my book went to a website typed in everything in the book and then went and said: "Well he used this from this person or this person or that person". What he doesn't realize is, I paid for that, from those people. They signed confidentiality agreements from those people. And what's very important is, most of the books that I've written, and I've written 8 books. My books are not geared towards the other computer security people. It's not geared towards the computer nerds or even the IT person. It's geared towards more the layman. That's the reason why I sell so many books. Most computer people when they write books, they're writin' these security books for who? Other security people. But the stuff in those books, other security people know about already. That?s why computer security books don't sell that much. Whereas with my books they sell. Because I write my books and market my books towards the layman. So the stuff that's in my books may not help you, or ben or so many other computer security people. But what it will do, is help that person out there who knows nothing about computer security. Ok,.. So when you say that my book has been plagiarized, it has not been plagiarized. I paid for everything that's in that book. Not one person has contacted me and said: "Greg", not one. Now remember this is very important, not one person has called me and said that you used my material. They may have called you, Ben or somebody else, but not us. Not one attorney has ever tried to contact us and say anything different either. Ok well,.. uh So this'll oh.. go ahead. So y you've you've made some serious allegations about the guy who has said this is basically lyin' and he's makin' fales accusations. Could you ever foresee yourself takin' legal action against Ben Rothke and the people who've said what you say are falsehoods. Would you ever consider takin' legal action against these people? Let me say this to you. I've already tried to find out who it was who started this whole thing. Most o' these people have been using aliases. I had a guy who called up my office 7 times yesterday and spoke to my PR and marketing department claiming that he was the guy who wrote it, gave us a phone number to call him back on, which, on the caller id said he was calling from a payphone. But the number he gave us was a bogus number. So, we don't know who to start with. But i will tell you this. I spend over 6 figures a year, sometimes a month on attorneys. Ok,.. I have big lawyers that will turn around and deal with this situation. Well,... So if Ben wants to say something, yes. If i can locate Ben, don't think we wouldn't slap him with a suit and give you a copy of it. So, let's get back to the interview anyway. Umm, people have made accusations that you present to work for high profile clients when you don't. Umm, so I mean there's been a few, I think it's uhh NFL f f football teams or whatever. I'm not really too hot on uhh American football. How do you respond to these accusations? Well first of all, I didn't say I did any business wit anybody in the NFL football team. What I did do, and we just did this on our video blog, and I'm gonna send these over to you probably in Skype when we hang up. Umm, some of these acquisati aquis ummm accusations that these people are giving, they're saying that Greg Evans never signed a deal with the Atlanta Hawks basketball, which is the NBA team or the Phillips Arena or the Altlanta Thrashers. So what I did do, and I will email a copy of over this to you, alright when we hang up, that on October 13th 2009 I have a contract in my hand where I signed a partnership letter of agreement with the Atlanta Hawks, Phillips and the Thrashers, which is all owned by the same group of people, to be their cyber security company. Now, I don't lie about this. Now, the agreement is finished. It's over with. Just like in back in 2001, I was also the cyber security company for the Los Angeles Clippers, which is another basketball team in Los Angeles, California. So, there's no reason, and this is very important, there is no reason for me to sit here and lie about something so big that can be verified. It, it's ridiculous, it's ludicrous. Ok, well... Now, what you... Sorry, go ahead Well, go ahead. No, no it's fine you... What I was gonna s... What I was gonna say is. The problem comes in, is people like you, people like Ben, people like this meathead Chris whatever his name Reilley is. People don't know my background. They don't know how long I?ve been doing this. They don't realize I'm not some IT person. I don't even like IT people. I didn't just wake up one morning, and I was selling cars, and say: "I wanna get into cyber security". This is what I've been doing since the 7th grade. And in the 10th grade, when I hacked AT&T, my parents had to pay 30,000 dollars to AT&T so I wouldn't go get in trouble, go to jail for it. When I was in, in 1996, cuz one guy who's posted on his websites and been hittin? on the tweets, which was Chris, he posted on his website that in '96 he was just getting into computers and networking and he fell into security. In 1996 I was hacking AT&T, MCI, Sprint and WorldCom for over a million dollars a week, for a company called umm, Franklin Telecom. Now, in 1997, when one of my employees heard me wiring 5 million dollars of the money that I used to hack, from the Bahamas to the Cayman Islands and started blackmailing, when I stopped paying the blackmail, told AT&T, who then researched it because they thought she was lying, who then told the Feds and I was arrested, well I didn't get arrested, Feds came into my office, Januar... or July 24th 1997. What they don't realize is, when I got locked up for it or indicted by the FBI for it, I was in the same cell as Kevin Mitnick. So Kevin Mitnick and I were both in MDCLA, on the fifth floor in the south wing. We call it 5 south. When Kevin Mitnick decided to take a deal it was me, before he even, after he spoke to his lawyers, they, government offered him a deal he had already been in jail for 5 months. It was me who when we sat down at dinnertime in jail and ate and I told him to take the deal. It was me that turned around and had to pay the government back 9.8 million dollars in my portion of my restitution. So when I say this to you, this isn't something that I'm new at. I am very good at what I do. The difference is I don't go out bragging about it. All these years I was hacking, I wasn't going out to hacker bulletin boards and websites and telling people what I did. Most of these doggone people who are posting never hacked a system in their life, unless it was in a controlled environment. Most of 'em are really not computer hackers themselves. So what I did do is is this. When I did get out I started my cyber security company. Now, I posted my book and I call it, for marketing purposes, "The World?s #1 Hacker". The t-shirts all of that, is all about marketing. I know for a fact I am not ?The World?s #1 Hacker?. When I got out a jail and had to do 24 months of it. When I got out, the whole game has changed. So what I decided to do was, to go out and hire the best of the best. And let these people go out and do penetration testing for me. If you read our press releases that hit the wire, which nobody posted at your website or some o' these other websites nor did Ben ever post at his website, when we said that we tracked down 5 people who got indicted for hacking into the city of Carson, California's computer system. And we're the cyber security company that headed the investigation with this umm Secret Service, FBI, Bank Security and local law enforcement no one said anything about that at all. We do this every single day. There is so much money to be made in cyber security. So when people are trying to hack my website or people who are posting on their website how good they are and how bad I am, the time and energy that they can be using talking about me, they could be going out here making over literally over a million dollars a year in this business. The reason why is there's no competition, at all. Everybody builds websites everybody sells computers. Anybody can install antivirus on your machine. Everybody can, anybody can network a computer, nothing special about that. But can anybody just hack into a system where a person doesn't know you're hacking into. This is what we do here. And we do it very well. We have offices in L.A., we have offices in Atlanta, DC and New York. Now, by telling you this, it's not about bragging. What it's about is, is to let you know how deep into this that we are. And if we weren't so far into it we wouldn't be as good as we are. We wouldn't be in business. My payroll for one month is more than 1 person probably makes in a whole year. And my payroll in just one office. So, when I say this to you, and it sounds like we wanna rant and rave, but it's not. It's just that it really irritates me somebody who's sittin? in his mom's basements who's hacking websites and defacing websites, is sitting here trying to talk about me. 8 books, I had 2 not 1 but 2 radio shows on cyber security in Los Angeles which is the second biggest market in all of North America. Now, I have a movie by a Sony subsidarary that comes out next year about my life. Before Sony signed the deal with me, they had their investigators investigate: "Is Greg who he say he is", and Greg is. O.. So when I say that i have... and my celebrity clients? I don't need to lie about celebrity clients. If you go to my Facebook page you'll see all my you'll see some of my celebrity friends. So this is what I do. And I have big clients in... One more thing before you go on. When I say: "The World?s #1 Hacker", it's not "hacker" it's more of "security consultant" because while you guys are talking about computer security someone may, like a Ludacris, who's one of the biggest rappers in the world, may call up and say: "Greg, I need you to come out and put CCTVs in all my homes, studios, and make sure they are protected with a firewall". Someone other, someone else that's big named might do the same exact thing. So we compete against, not you guys who are sitting here writing these security blogs, we compete against bigger companies like ADP which is now owned by Brinks, who will go out and tell some rapper, some NFL player, some NBA player, some Governor, some Senator, that you're protected when we put in this home alarm system and we put this CCTV cameras in, and I pull out my iPhone and I'm able to access your cameras and view all their cameras on my iPhone. Why? Because they didn't even have a firewall installed. Because Brinks and these other security consultants don't know anything about computer security and computer security people know nothing about physical security. So this is why I get paid so much, and this is why I do what I do, and this is why I put the name. The name "#1 Hacker"? No. I would hire half those people who are doing the talking and who are really good hackers they could probably, I would probably hire 'em at 6 figures a year to come work for me. Ok. And that's what I do. and If you don't mind at the end of this interview, would I be able to talk one, with one of your employees for like 5 minutes to interview them? Yeah, what would you like to... Which, who would you like to speak to, and what would you like to talk about? Well just and j j just what it's like working for Ligatt and that kind of stuff you do, you know, eh just like a 5 minute q n a. Alright, then I'll let you speak to, not just my PR team, I'll call one of my programmers in who writes software. Oh, that's one more thing. Great analogy. Steve Jobs. We write applications for Apple as well. But Steve Jobs, comes out the iPad, the iPhone. Best computers in the world, great operating system. Now, my personal opinion. Now, when Steve Jobs stands in front of people like he did last week and he announced a new iPhone, do you really think Steve Jobs wrote any software that's on the iPhone? Do you think he really designed and was down in the room when they manufactured their iPhone? When they built the, when they setup the machines, and the metal to cut out the iPhone? Do you think he did that? No. But Steve Job takes all the credit for it. You don't even know the names of the people that actually did it. But, it's the same thing when it comes to writing my book. I wrote my book. I put my name on it like Steve puts his name on his Apple products. So? Who gets credit for it? I get credit for it. Because just like Steve Jobs paid his people to come up with the iPhone, and new operating systems and everything else. It?s the same thing I did when I wrote my book. I paid these other writers to contribute to my book. Now, I will bring in my programmers... (Go grab Q) Ah.. ...and they'll tell you what it's like working for me. I mean I I have a few more questions to ask you if you don't mind, but then to talk to one of your programmer guys. Ahhm, you mentioned on twitter that you've been racially abused. Could you give more information about that and I also wanna know what it's like bein? the most prominent African American hacker. Well, (Go grab Q for me) umm, I'm glad you brought that up cuz I totally forgot to mention that and I appreciate it and I appreciate this interview. Matthew I have never ever seen anything like this in my life. All my life I was I was in elementary school, and a guy called me a nigger one time, and all my life, I'm 41 now, I've never been called a nigger as much as I have on YouTube. When I look at my videos no matter what video I do, I have people saying that niggers can't hack computers. I have one person saying that niggers took golf from us with Tiger Woods, niggers took tennis, talking about Venus and Serena Williams, then niggers took the White House from us, talking 'bout President Obama, and then he turned around and said: "Now niggers wanna take computers from us". They use the word, I had a web site in (grab that website, umm name) I'll give you the name of another computer security website where they dedicated like 20 pages to some guy calling me nigger nigger nigger and we need to crash this nigger's system. They went as far as "Let's manipulate his stock". Let's all get together and do, umm a denial of service attack against him. So, with that bein' said those same people who are sitting here talking about me plagiarizing are probably some of the same people who using some of these racial words. And I would never think in the computer industry that we would go through this. Because I'm not I was one of the fortunate ones. But when you think about computer hackers and computers nerds, which is a good thing to me, you think about some fat kid sittin' in his mom's basement with some big coke-bottle glasses on. You know hacking people's computers, writing software, you know, building computers from scratch, coming up with their own operating system. And the guy who could never get the girl, who always got picked on. Now the Internet has exploded, now he could be Mr. big man on campus, behind a keyboard and he can act like he's the king of the world. He won't show his face. He won't give his real name. He won't do any of that. So for me to see some of these racial comments, they don't comment on the content of the book they don't content, I mean comment on the content of my interviews that may be up at YouTube. All they see is that I'm African American. If I was white I wouldn't be having this. If I was Kevin Mitnick and I came up with the same book the same way I did, I wouldn't be having this. When I was locked up I told Kevin Mitnick to his face, while we're sittin' at the table: "You're not a fucking hacker". This is what I told him. He's like: "What do you mean?" I was like: "You're a con-artist. You were able to convince somebody, con somebody, to give you their username and password. You did social engineering, which is nothing but conning a person". But over the years I've changed my thought about Kevin Mitnick. The reason why is because it doesn't matter how you access somebody's computer. If you access somebody's computer without their permission and you're able to get in, it's computer hacking. Doesn't matter if you use brute force. Doesn't matter if you use social engineering. Doesn't matter if you use spyware. Doesn't matter if you use the script. Either way you get in, when the b b... When the police come kicking your door they're gonna charge you with hacking. That's the bottom line. So with that being said, umm I have one of my programmers who writes some of our software right here and you can talk to him. You can talk to him bluntly. I won't interrupt and he will tell you if you wanna ask him what type of boss I am because I don't play. I don't have a problem firin' someone. He'll talk to you honestly and his name, we call him Quentin Ok yeah... ...or we call him Q. Yeah that's fine, umm just two last things I wanna bring up, umm which have kind of like materialized today. Umm and one of the guys on twitter, a guy called Infosecmafia has posted pictures of what he alleges to be your office. Umm I?ll post you a copy now. Umm and is there any truth to these claims here, I mean there's a, there's one of the pictures that he's posted umm.. Hold on I gotta see this. Hold on. Hold on, let me see this. It's uhh, it's from a strip mall and... It's... Hold on. Its, it's a UPS office. He says that you work in in... in like the back of the UPS store in a in a sorta like a strip mall. Ha! Ha! Ha! Hold up, the picture hasn't come up yet but it's coming... Hold on one second, your picture is coming up. This is sooooo funny. You know what I'mma do after the interview? I'm gonna turn on my camera, ok? Ok ...and i'm gonna show you, and i'm gonna walk you, because my pictures of my office are up at the companies Facebook page and my Facebook page. But what I will do is is I will walk you through my office so you can see how big our office is. Also, the people are gone right now so that's even better, so you can see exactly what our offices look like. Ok, let me talk to you about the dickhead who posted this. What this is the mailing address. What we've done is is this. We know. I've been doing this game too dogggone long. I know if I post my real address up here, our physical address up here, we would have nothing but a whole bunch of headaches and problems. So what we do is, we have all of our mail sent to this private box. This is not our physical address. So to show you that, to prove to you I'm gonna turn on my camera after you interview Quentin and then I'm gonna walk you through our office so you can even take snapshots on your computer and you can see our office, is that Ok with you? That's obviously fine, umm one last question. Yeah. You've been challenged by one of the guys from Exotic Liability for 51% of his company. Umm and it's a hacking chall... I don't know anything about... Oh. Well I can send you the tweet right now umm he posted .. on See, it's so... It's so funny that you see all of this, but they'd never turned around and called me, emailed me, emailed my team, saying that they're gonna challenge me. I don't want 50 percent. What I've told everybody out there, and this is the reason why I do it, if you are a true hacker, if you're as good as you say you are, then you should have the money to do it. If this guy owns a company he should have the money to do it. I am willing to put up one million dollars in cash, in cash, hand it to an attorney to put it into an escrow account, the competition can put up one million in cash, and put that into an escrow account. The winner of the group will then donate the money to charity. We dont even keep the money. The point that I'm trying to make here is this. If you're a real hacker, and you real computer security person, you should have a million dollars laying around. The gentleman who just got arrested, got sentenced in January, who hacked into TJ Maxx, stole 40 million credit cards, stole more identities, over 90 million identities. When they arrested him he had over a million dollars buried in his parents backyard that they found. Doesn't include all the money that they came up missing. If you wanna go challenge somebody, in a baskin... boxing match, one of the world?s number one boxers, you have to pay that challenger his fee. He's not gonna do it for petty change. So if I wanted to fight Mike Tyson, when Mike Tyson was number one, Mike Tyson got 40 million dollars for every fight. I couldn't go to Mike Tyson and say: "Here, Mike Tyson. Here's 5 million". He's gonna say: "No, my rate is 40 million". And my time and effort would be a million dollars right now, literally. So if this guy really wanted to challenge me, tell him to mortgage his house, tell him to turn around and sell his kids on eBay. Well I w I was just... ..but i'm not gonna just ... Sorry dude this ss ummm could you turn down your speakers as well please, cuz it's aaah... Not a problem, go ahead. Uhh, I've been looking at his twitter account... Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah yeah, and this guy runs Exact... Exotic Liability. It's one of the big ones, and he's posted on twitter, that he will bring one million dollars in cash to Defcon, umm so it seems like he's accepted the challenge. I posted the twitter in the Skype feed for you. In Defcon... Defcon happ... In Defcon I will, In Defcon I will be in umm... (Where are we goin?) Barbados. I'm doing a cyber security conference for the same time Defcon is going. Some of my employees will be there, but I will not be there. I will be in the Bahamas, I mean in the umm, Barbados. We sent a press release out about this over 2 months ago or a month ago. It's posted at our website as well, cyber security tour, and actually I leave for Barbados next week for a couple of days, then I have to go to Miami for a big entertainment conference that I'm sponsoring. When you guys say that he has no entertainment friends. Umm, some of these guys who say, this is really funny to me because they try their hardest to join my Facebook page and then I have so many Facebook users that some of 'em have infiltrated, because every time I post something on Facebook they tweet about it or they write about it. But what they don't do is, they don't talk about all my celebrity friends, that are in my Facebook page. Like my birthday party, earlier this year in Miami, when all my celebrity friends showed up for it. We put those up at our page, but they don't talk about that. These guys are not friends with a computer nerd just to be friends with a computer nerd. Ok, well that's that's fair enough then. But I?m guessing you feel pretty confident about it, and I'm guessing the guy and you feel free to, so I mean if you guys were to ever sort something out, uh you know, I'd I'd like to see what'd be the outcome of that hacker challenge, because you know it'd be it'd be interesting thing to watch you know be an interesting outcome. Hold on, what is the, what's the name of this company? Uhh, he has, he has a company, not too sure what his company is, but he runs one of the biggest s-security podcasts going. It's called Exotic Liability and that's exoticliability.com Where is he located? Umm shit, I?ll, He's States side he's based in the United States, but umm I don't know where exactly. know... Now, are you tweeting this as we're going along or is this being streamed live? I've, I've got Tweetdeck open, but I've not tweeted anything... in a while. Umm... Ok, let's get something straight again. Let's get something straight. Let's get something straight. Very important. To the guy that you're talking about and to any other listeners out there. If they didn't hear it at the beginning, they'll hear it now. To me, in order to hack the biggest corporations in the world and to steal the money that I did and to pay back 9.8 million should tell you something about my talent. But like I said before, before I went away, I thought I was great. Never bragged about it, because I didn't want everyone to know exactly what I did, so I could get busted. You don't go out and steal money and then go out and post it on the website so you can get busted a year later or a day later. So right now, my primary focus is running a company. I have 2 publicly traded companies. This is what I do. I'm back and forth meeting with lawyers, and lobbyists, getting government contracts, doin' big deals and inventing software, working with my programmers and my whole team. It's like Bill Gates. Bill Gates is the CEO, well he's not even the CEO but he was the CEO of Microsoft, or Steve Jobs of Apple. These guys don't go out and write code anymore. Not at all. And the same thing with me. If I need to hack a system I don't turn around and just go hack. I'll pick up the phone. If it's an easy thing I?ll just walk down the hallway and tell one of the people in the office, check out this system real quick, or here's an IP address, see if you can get in. But if I needed to, I got 60 people that I can pick up the phone and call in Los Angeles, that will get into a person's system. Because that's what I do now. I'm more in management than I am a hacker. Period. I'm more of a consultant now than I am hacking now. I have one person that every morning, just like the President of the United States, they give me a security briefing on all security things that happened over night. Same thing the President gets by his security team when he wakes up: "This is what happened in the world last night while you were asleep". So that way I can keep updated on all these big events that have happened. So if someone picks up the phone and calls Greg, and says: "Greg we've got a situation". I'm already familiar with the situation. But do not think for a million years Greg is the person that's gonna go out there and do the work. Now, to your listeners and to you and all your twitter followers, Facebook followers and everything. I pay for talent. So if you are out there and you're already a good security consultant and you can prove it to us, I have no problems signin' a contract with you and you working for me as a consultant. Just like a soccer team because you guys are familiar with soccer. Yeah. In order to be the best soccer team you have to have good talent. The guys who win the World Cup, win the World Cup because they have a great team put together. In order for me to be the #1 cyber security team out there, company out there, I have to have a good team. And I?ve recruited everybody, from a 13 year old kid, while he was 11 when he started, to a old man. I have somebody coming in right now who's re, who's retiring from the FBI cyber security division. who's been with the FBI for 25 years. I've signed people who are in jail right now for computer hacking. But, and they're not getting out no time soon, but what I've done is is, I'll sign the deal with them, put money on their books, help them pay their restitution, in exchange for when we have questions or we have problems or we need to come up with something or even write a new book. We will go to them and they will consult with us. So, this guy who wants to challenge me, he's the same guy I would buy. Remember this. Now, since 2003, since I came home, I don't hack. I write checks. Literally. I make enough money that I go out and find talent, like you, and write a check. And if you have a great business, and I think I can make money with your business, I'll say forget it. Let me just buy your company. And just buy you out and write you a check for your company, and now I own it. That's what I do now. Fair enough then that, that... No ...that makes sense. Umm, so uhh from what I've covered you know you you deny all the accusations that umm you're a plagiarist, uhh that you you you've made up clients and you you say that you you found the scene to be quite hostile, and and you you know you're basically a financial guy not really a writer, not really a technical guy. So, umm that's fair enough then. Umm so it's been great to you. Umm, if you email me all the stuff that you've talked about all the stuff regardin' these umm the former clients and umm you know anything... Do you see me? Uhh, oh let me have a look now, yeah I do see you, yeah. Ok, this is what I wanna do. Now that you see me, I wanna show you a couple things, I will email, but now I'm gonna give you a little tour because I have you on my laptop. So imma walk around the office and give you a tour of my office and the whole entire office, not just my private office. So with that being said, can you see this document in front of you? Not very clearly, but I can see it, yeah. Can you see it now? Ahh, yes I can see it. Do you see the logos at the top? The eagle is the Atlanta Hawks, the middle one is the Phillips Arena, the other one at the very end is the Atlanta Thrashers, which is the hockey team. Now, right here, (feedback) Oh, sorry about that. Right here is the date, October 2009, ok? Now, under it, it says starting right here: "Ligatt Security International Inc. partnership letter. My Partnership. Dear Greg, this letter of agreement, is effective October two thousand second, by and between Ligatt Security Inc., umm Ligatt Security, a California corporation and a person, and this place of business with our address and stuff, and Arena Sports Management and Marketing. Now, this is the actual document, that I have that shows that we, or we were, the cyber security company for the Atlanta Thrashers the Atlanta Hawks. Umm, I mean I'll take you around. Here's the other thing. How many cyber security people do you know that gets invited to DC or gets invited to speak at, let?s say the FAA. the FAA, whatever the FAA, which is the Federal, what is it, Aviation Administration, their run all our airports in the United States, and the FAA basically controls all the airports around the world, because all the airports around the world go or are in line with what happens here in the United States, which I think is really messed up, that the United States has that much power. But, when they have conferences and they ask someone to come out and speak, they didn't ask the guy that you're talking about, they didn't ask any other hackers to come out and speak. They asked us to come out and speak. These are the certifications. So, and on my wall, in a second, you'll see more certifications, than just a little bit. Now, and I've been in over 200 newspapers and magazines not just featured about Greg Evans, but me consulting about cyber security, period. Now I will have, if you want the tour first, I?ll give you the tour first, umm hopefully you can take snapshots of some of the office. If you want to, umm speak to Quentin, I will put Quentin in front the camera right now so you can speak to him. Yo, we'll do Quentin first then the tour. Which one would you like? We'll do Quentin first then the tour. Alright, Quentin this is the one time you get to sit in my chair, come on. You remind me of Tommy now. Greg, you see he's protective of his chair. Very protective of my chair. Hay Quentin. How you doin? man? Ah good, and yourself man? Ah always good, always good. So you work for Gregory Evans as a programmer? Yeah. Uhh Ok, so what umm what kind of things do you program? What uhh kind of applications? Is it mobile or encryption or? Uuuuuuhhhh I'm pretty much doing a little bit of everything. I'm kinda the head of the programming department here, so. Uhh, everything from you know coding stuff in our security suites to helpin' out with the mobile applications, you know a little bit of everything. Ok sounds good. So umm, I'm curious to see what languages do you program in? Umm I'm doing some PHP, a little bit of Ruby, some C some C++, ummm that's about it. That's all pretty cool. So I'm guessin' umm working for a big security company such as uhh Ligatt, you have to deal with you know bit retail umm companies. Umm, so one of the questions that I got asked by twitter users were regardin' uhh, How do you think that companies that handle payments should secure their systems, and do you think that PCI compliance helps or hinders the online retail industry. That's one of the questions from twitter. What did you say? Repeat it again. Sorry uhh, it, it's the accent isn't it? Umm, one of the uhh, one of the users on twitter asked, how do you suggest that companies that handle payment secure their systems and do you think that PCI compliance helps or hinders the online retail industry? Umm... Let's see. Well I mean as far as PCI compliance, I mean it can help and it can'y(?) help(?hurt?) Uhh, since the rules are so st.. so strict in some cases it does help, uhh it does hurt some companies because they can get fined. Ok that?s... But it does help the you know lock down umm a lot of bad stuff from happening. Ok, sounds good, uhh... And just. And I'm more so, of a programmer so some of the business side I don't really deal with. I'm more so big with the programmer so.... That, that?s... I may not be able to answers questions uhhh as technical as you want me to. That's fair enough then. Umm, so pretty much uhh what's it like working for Gregory Evans, you know what, what's he like as a guy just uhh to deal with, as a person? Uhh, he's cool people. When it comes to business he wants his work done a certain way, so from a business he's a very strict person but from a personal side very cool person, you know uhh cool to hang out with 'im and everything, but when it comes to business it's business and nothing personal. Ahh, Ok well it sounds good and uhh it sounds like you got a a a pretty decent boss now, so uhh thanks for your time anyway and and thanks for agreein' to do the interview with SHITcast. Ahh, cool no problem. Cheers. Now, ok, so we're back. Just to let you know, before we start the tour. We're big on PCs and MACs. All my employees get iPads. We get 'em actually before anybody else. We all get iPhones as well. We get Laptops, they get Desktops, and when I say "all employees" I mean "all employees". I need to make sure that if I have a question, and I call an employee at 1:30 in the morning, they can reach over and grab their iPhone or their iPad and pull up the information that I'm looking for. So, this is what immma do. I'm going to disconnect something here and we're gonna start the tour because it's very important that you see and I'm gonna give you a look so you can see the outside of our building as well, because when you do this interview I don't want it to be sugarcoated, I don't want it to be that you miss something, or what about his office, or if it's a one-man office or his company is not as big as you, as people think it is, or he's making it up. So, this is my office. This is my messy desk. These are some of the plaques that are on my walls. I'll take you over there closer. As I swing around, still my messy desk. We have art. We have a big couch, big screen television a little bar, even though I don't drink. So we're gonna walk outside my office. Now, as we walk outside my office you will see more articles, newspaper articles that I've been in over the years, umm then when you walk out, this is my personal conference room table, televisions, as you can tell all my wood, all my floors are custom wood, umm this is my assistant's desk, and behind that door over there is my accounting office, gotta keep my money close to me. Yeah, sure. You walk out, I I'm, I'm kinda proud of this. This is my private bathroom in my office. Now, I know this may not be a big deal, but I really like my private bathroom so and my private bathroom comes with a marble shower. Love it. So then as we walk down the hall some more, this is where my programmers actually program, we still got 2 people here as we speak. Well, one's an actual intern. So this is Raman, who right now is working on one of our Android applications. Umm Raman, where are you originally from? Ukraine From the Ukraine. So, we recruit umm talent from wherever you can get it. So this is my actual office or my programmers actually work here. Now, as you walk down the hall some more, you'll see different things that we've invented, tours, posters and things of that sort. This end here is more of the business side of it. We have marketing people and we actually have umm a marketing, a business team and some of our sales people actually take calls here. Walk through here some more, coming around, this is our break room and apparently our janitors are here, cleaning our offices right now. This is one of our business development, our government business development. The job of this office is to go out and get us government contracts. That's what this guy does. You can look at his desk and you can tell he's busy or at least he's trying to make it look like that because you know if he doesn't I?ll fire him. This right here is the #1 cleaning service in all of America. She's here right now. Hi. Hi. So this is my PR team that sits in here who gets me all my marketing. Here's a copy of my book, so, sitting sitting on one of the PR people's desk. As you walk through here, this is our reception area, when people walk through the front door here, this is the area they come in with TVs. Pardon the cleaning crew here. Aquariums. This is some of my employees, this is the women's bathroom, here. They have a private shower but they never use it so we use it for storage. Now, the dog here is also named after the company, Ligatt. Now, when we walk through here, this is the other side of our offices. In here, these people are in charge of designing shirts, our new t-shirt line that we came out with. That's what they do there, and in this office here. They design shirts in here. Walk through here, you see one of our smaller conference room areas, I'll give you a better view. As you walk through here . That's the tour of the outside of the office. This is a great time to give you, I mean the inside. This is a great time to give you a tour because all the employees are gone. When we walk outside of the office you see some of the employee's cars are still here. This is the front of my office building. Not a UPS box... No, no. ...as you can tell. Above the door you can see it says Ligatt Security. Can you see all of that? I can yeah uhh uhh, crystal clear I can see it. Hello? Yeah I can see it, yeah. Are you there? I am yeah yeah, I can see quite well, yeah. Ok. Ok so, with that being said we're back inside. So this is what it looks like when you first walk in. Waiting room area but they're cleaning right now. You walk back you come around here. You continue to walk you come into the business area. You see the big posters on the wall here of ours. We normally project all our stats, our sales, and anything else on this blank wall with our projector here, so we can count how much money we are making that day. Then we continue to walk back. this is our private server room, says: "Keep this door locked" So, can't let you in there to see anything. Umm, then we come all the way back into my personal area conference rooms, and then we come back in, we walk in, and my desk is a mess, but that's the what a CEO's desk is supposed to look like. That's the tour of the entire office. Now, you've seen it... Yeah, absolutely. ...and we're not in the back of a UPS store. And we have a open door policy where we allow our shareholders to come out as well to visit our office. Lot of 'em don't do it, lot of 'em, they just don't. They talk a lot of stuff on the boards but when it comes down to it, they don't do anything. (Quentin you can go back to work now.) (laughing) One... What, you thought you were off work? Ok, ok, so any other questions? Uhh, yeah one last one that's one which has, which has kind of developed as as you know you've been showing me around and been talking. There's been a conspiracy, again on twitter, you know you must be sick of that word by now man, but there's been a conspiracy on twitter, to buy up, I think its 240 thousand or 240 million shares of your company. And I can, I can show you a tweet of that right now, umm, umm ah actually, this this is is ah the track(?) that's umm in the... Here, I'll, I'll sh show you the tweets. Uhh, can't find the new one but this is the main one, umm and they're trying to buy up a a bunch of your company, so how would you respond to that? They could never buy a bunch of my company, I have too many shares out there, and I own more shares and voting rights than anybody else. I do like that they're buying my stock out there, that's great, but if they were smart they would buy as much as they can. One thing I can say is is this. If you like me, if you don't like me. I know how to make money. So if I was you, I would turn around and wanna be on my side and get paid, than try to be against me and get nothing out of it. Because right now buying my stock today is great. Because 1 month from now you're gonna wish that you had bought my stock. Uhh, I'm guessing you got something in the pipeline then? So. Big things are in the pipeline, very big. Ok well, Greg it's been good talking to you, and I think we've got everything we need, and it'll be going online either tomorrow or the day after, and, everyone will be able to hear it, and you know you'll be able to answer . So it's been good speaking with you I wish you all the best. Thank you very much, sir. Alright well have a good one take care. bye. Great, Bye bye.